In this episode of Pro Bono with Ed Nahhat, we sit down with Brian Rolfe, President and CEO of Kemp Klein Law Firm. Brian shares his journey from joining the firm in 2007 to leading it today, emphasizing the firm’s unique culture and long-standing staff. His commitment to the firm grew over time, leading him to take on leadership responsibilities while maintaining his law practice.
Brian reflects on his early legal career, starting in tax and business litigation, and how his experience shaped his approach to firm management. He discusses the importance of mentorship, peer recognition, and the effort required to become a "Super Lawyer," highlighting the steep learning curve young attorneys face in their first years. He attributes much of his success to resilience, preparation, and a strong support system, including his wife, Leslie, whom he met in college.
We also explore Brian’s personal interests, including his passion for marathon running, skiing, and officiating lacrosse. He draws parallels between preparing for a marathon and preparing for litigation—both require discipline, endurance, and the ability to handle unexpected challenges. His dedication to personal growth extends into his legal practice, where he has evolved from a litigation-heavy focus to a more holistic role in business and estate planning, helping clients navigate succession planning and long-term financial security.
Brian explains how Kemp Klein prioritizes succession planning for businesses and individuals, working to prevent legal disputes before they arise. He emphasizes the firm's commitment to client service, ensuring that business owners, families, and individuals have comprehensive legal strategies in place.
As we recently celebrated Kemp Klein’s 55th anniversary, Brian reflects on the firm's history and its strong sense of community. He also discusses the Kemp Klein Foundation, its charitable initiatives, and the success of the annual golf outing, which raised over $30,000 for Forgotten Harvest.
Throughout our conversation, Brian’s leadership philosophy becomes clear—he values collaboration, preparation, and a positive outlook. His ability to balance firm leadership with a thriving legal practice underscores his dedication to both the firm's legacy and its future.
Stay tuned for our next episode, where we spotlight a rising star at Kemp Klein.
Ed Nahhat:
Hey, it's Pro Bono with Ed Nahhat, welcome back. We're here with our third guest. This one's a big one. We're here with Brian Rolfe. Thanks a lot for being here, Brian.
Brian Rolfe:
So, yeah, third time the charm, or three strikes and you're out, I guess we'll find out. Well, thanks for having me.
Ed Nahhat:
Brian is the CEO and President of Kemp Klein Law Firm, so we're glad to have him. How do you become the President and CEO of Kemp Klein at the same time?
Brian Rolfe:
It's a bit of an accident; I stumbled into it.
Ed Nahhat:
Yeah, that's what I thought when it happened. They all told me, and I'm like, “What?”
Brian Rolfe:
Honestly, I joined the firm in 2007, and really came here because of the culture and the people. It was very attractive. A lot of the staff here has been here 40 years, as you know. If you've been here 20 years, you're kind of a newbie.
So, that's what brought me here in ’07. I wanted to make sure the firm was around for my entire career. So, I just got involved in recruiting and firm management, put my toe in the water, and then got sucked in. And here I am in a good way, got sucked in.
Ed Nahhat:
You're vested. You're vested in the future of the firm, you're vested in your own future at the same time, right?
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, without question. I mean, my career, I started in a small law firm. It was a fellow that hired me right out of school, I handled tax and business litigation. My practice grew where I needed a business firm. Ended up here, didn't want to move again, frankly – selfish. And because I love this place, want to make sure it continued to grow and develop, and really, stay the way it was as far as people and culture and all that.
Ed Nahhat:
So, ‘07, how many years is that at Kemp Klein then? I know you're not good at math, neither am I.
Brian Rolfe:
It's under 20, so I'm a newbie here.
Ed Nahhat:
Okay, so what's your golf handicap then? Are you good with math on that?
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, well, not playing enough that I want to disclose the handicap at this point.
Ed Nahhat:
(Laughs) So, ‘07, how many-
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, so 17 years.
Ed Nahhat:
Wow. Well, I've been here 11 now, and I remember because you were on the team that recruited me, and I remember meeting you that day and I really enjoyed the conversation that we had that day. I don’t know if you remember it, but we went out to lunch and you were just like you are now, you're honest, open, a good person to talk to.
And you weren't an executive then. You were just a regular partner, and I really enjoyed the conversation like I'm having now.
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, absolutely. And at that point, Ralph Castelli was running the firm, so I worked with him on the front end to sort of make the transition over. But like you, went through the process of meeting Ralph and then other shareholders, and then others in the firm.
So, it was a process, but my vibe was similar to what you just described, which was good people, normal people, (chuckles) which sometimes lawyers get a bad rap, good and bad in every profession. But again, the culture here and the people – no screamers in the hall, none of that nonsense.
Ed Nahhat:
Well, there is one screamer in the hall, that would be me, but I'm working on it. But that's because I come from a dramatic background and I'm trying to tone it down.
Brian Rolfe:
But you don't scream at other people, it's just at yourself usually.
Ed Nahhat:
This morning, I yelled at my computer, but that's before 9:00 AM.
Brian Rolfe:
Technology will do that.
Ed Nahhat:
So, I understand that you're a Chip- Central (Michigan University)-
Brian Rolfe:
You got it.
Ed Nahhat:
I got some Central in my family, I'm pretty proud of the Chips, Central. And then you went to … where did you go to law school?
Brian Rolfe:
DCL (Detroit College of Law).
Ed Nahhat:
DCL, good school.
Brian Rolfe:
Which is now Michigan State.
Ed Nahhat:
Oh, that's right, they merged.
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, they merged. So, I got out of law school in ‘94, my last year, my third year at DCL, the first years were starting up in Lansing, so that was about the time they came in with Comerica Park. And basically, Comerica Park needed the street where the law school was located, and it was a good fit for DCL to go to MSU.
Ed Nahhat:
Do you consider yourself a Spartan then, or did you miss that transition?
Brian Rolfe:
Well, I mentioned earlier before we got going, my grandpa was a dentist who went to U of M, so I grew up watching Michigan football, et cetera. I was a Michigan fan, but I paid tuition in Michigan State, and I'm technically a graduate of Michigan State, so-
Ed Nahhat:
You do not tell them-
Brian Rolfe:
Well, yeah, when they're not playing each other, I'm pulling for either and both, for sure.
Ed Nahhat:
Right, me too. And I went to Wayne, and I can't take sides.
Brian Rolfe:
I hear you.
Ed Nahhat:
And then something happened along the way. You became best lawyers and super lawyers. How did that happen? Hard work, determination, litigation, how did that happen? Did somebody nominate you?
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, I think the process is through nominations. For example, Super Lawyers, it's a peer review type thing. Top 5% of lawyers in the state are comprised in the super lawyers.
And as far as how things went down, I mean man, for the first five years as a lawyer, I felt like I didn't know what was going on or at least three years. And then years four and five, I kind of figured it out a little bit, felt a little more comfortable.
It's just everybody who is a lawyer goes through that process where you get out of law school, you're not really taught how to be a lawyer in law school.
Ed Nahhat:
That’s right.
Brian Rolfe:
You're taught how to do research and write, and I was in moot court in law school. So you've got the oral argument, appellate advocacy component. You get some trial skills, some basic things. But managing client relationships, dealing with difficult judges, dealing with difficult opposing counsel, and just getting up and running, it takes a while. So, for me, like a lot of good lawyers, just put my head down.
Ed Nahhat:
If you don't mind me saying so, you sound like it's easy to be in the top 5%, but it isn't. It's not everybody's in the top 5%, Brian.
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah.
Ed Nahhat:
So, someone must've done something right. It sounds like you had good support too. You must have a very, very strong partnership at home.
Brian Rolfe:
Yes. Yeah, for sure. Leslie, my wife, we've known each other since 1986.
Ed Nahhat:
Oh, that's great.
Brian Rolfe:
Met at Central and everybody goes through the evolution, which we went through, and yeah, we've been together. Two kids, kids are doing great. I am very lucky; I’m a lucky guy.
Ed Nahhat:
I heard today that in 1986, that was the year that Mike Tyson first won his world championship.
Brian Rolfe:
Is that right?
Ed Nahhat:
Yeah, at the age of 22, and I thought, “Wow, what was I doing in ‘86?” I dropped out of law school, and I was bumming around Europe trying to figure out whether I was going to be a lawyer or not. You, on the other hand, you were already committed, you already had a plan.
Brian Rolfe:
Well, I did take a year off between undergrad and law school. I went to Vail, lived in Vail for a year and skied. I grew up skiing, and so that's something I wanted to do, kind of take a whatever—gap year, break. Ironically, I think that experience got me my first job.
Ed Nahhat:
So, you didn't break anything, a leg or an arm or anything at Vail? (Laughs).
Brian Rolfe:
I did not. My roommate, who I met out there, he was from Wisconsin, had just graduated from the University of Wisconsin, same program I was on. He was going back for his MBA but took a year off. He actually broke his femur.
Ed Nahhat:
So, that was your first lawsuit?
Brian Rolfe:
(Laughs) So, he spent an extra year out there, but I came through it, no problem. Came back at the end of the summer, took the LSAT and applied, and here we are.
Ed Nahhat:
So, did you transition from skiing to running somewhere, or did you always run? Because I've heard along the way you’ve done a lot of marathon running.
Brian Rolfe:
So, I did not run in high school. I played sports in high school. I started to run in college just to stay in shape a little bit. So, I wasn't doing marathons or distance running in college, that really took hold when I was working. I was out, I was a lawyer, and it was another goal, something to go out and try to aim at, achieve.
And so, I kind of got sucked into the marathon world. I think my first one was in ‘01, I believe. I've done Boston. I did New York Marathon.
Ed Nahhat:
You did Boston?
Brian Rolfe:
I did Boston, yep. And so, that was 2012, and I mark it by the … the bombing was 2013, so it was the year before the bombing, and a great experience. It was a lot of fun.
Ed Nahhat:
You did the Boston Marathon and the New York Marathon. Is there any correlation in your mind between prepping and doing a marathon and practicing law and litigation, and that kind of work?
Brian Rolfe:
Great question. No doubt about it. Yeah, it's all about the preparation.
Now, race day (chuckles), just like the day of trial, you get some curveballs that can come in. On a race day, you can just have not slept well. You can have a cold coming on, whatever the case might be. And in litigation, you can have a late motion in limine, or some witness turn on you.
So, I think there are similarities there. It's analogous in that context. And litigation—you litigate, you know what it takes. You do as much as you can and be as well prepared as you can and let it rip.
Ed Nahhat:
It seems to me like a similar kind of mental discipline is necessary to prepare for a long-distance run. I don't run—I mean, I run up stairs occasionally.
[Laughter]
I don't run like that, and I would think that you'd have to prepare your mind like you do have to prepare for a case.
Brian Rolfe:
I guess as you're talking, the thing that came to mind is resilience, I think, is the key because you're going to have days during your training (I'm talking about the marathon here again), you get sick, you don't feel good, you didn't sleep well, you tweaked your knee, and you got to get your run in and get your training in.
Litigation—you’re going to have a tough deposition day. Your expert's not going to say what you want. And I've told clients this, litigation is a marathon, not a sprint.
Ed Nahhat:
Great quote, I'm going to use that. Well, I'm really glad that you told me that because I wouldn't have thought of anything like that. But I was reading your bio, which I have to do to prepare for this thing (speaking of preparation), and I'm like, “He ran the Boston Marathon, oh my god, what a dude. And he plays golf,” and then I found out you're a lacrosse referee. I'm like, “Dude, I got to find out what does a lacrosse referee do?” (Laughs).
Brian Rolfe:
You want the backstory on that?
Ed Nahhat:
Lacrosse referee?
Brian Rolfe:
So, my son probably tried every sport you could possibly try, and he landed on a sport I knew nothing about, which is lacrosse. And he was like a middle schooler, maybe fifth grade, maybe last year of elementary school.
So, you'd have these plays where one player would throw the ball out of bounds, but that team would get the ball back, which made no sense to me. So, the rule is the team with the player closest to the ball when and where the ball goes out of bounds gets possession.
Ed Nahhat:
The lawyer in you is like-
Brian Rolfe:
Took me a minute … yeah. So, I'm like, well, what's the best way to learn the other sort of nuanced rules that I know nothing about? And that was to go be an official.
Ed Nahhat:
I’ve never actually seen a live lacrosse game, so I think I'll have to try one sometime.
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, yeah, they're fun. Let me know, I'll get you trained up on the rules. Get you squared away.
Ed Nahhat:
I'll call you, I'll be like, “Once the ball’s out of bounds …” Well, I'm so glad that you were able to officiate your kid’s lacrosse team, but the question is, did you bend the rules for your son?
Brian Rolfe:
(Chuckles) Well, they would only let me do—and these pesky ethical obligations we have as lawyers and otherwise—I never did a game that counted for my son.
Ed Nahhat:
You'll probably call it at home a lot. You probably have to call the rules at home a bit. But they’re all grown up, aren’t they? You sound relieved.
Brian Rolfe:
They’re not gone; they're not in the house.
No relief, just happy for them and grateful that they're doing well and on their own and doing their thing. So, it's good.
Ed Nahhat:
So, speaking of pesky ethical obligations, I am fascinated by the fact that you have these duties as President and CEO of this firm, and you have a full-time law practice at the same time, and you seem pretty cheery about it most of the time. I don't see you walking around with a cloud over your head most of the time.
I wonder how you do that. I mean, how do you manage your full-time law practice, generating the work and making sure the client's work is done, and you have to manage all the things that this firm … I mean, this firm isn't small, how do you do that?
Brian Rolfe:
I got a lot of help. I got a lot of great people, as you know. As far as firm operational issues, again, a good support group here that handles some of the details. We will have our admin meetings every week and get the lay of the land in terms of what's going on personnel-wise and financial-wise, operational-wise. We had a lease renewal that came up a little bit ago.
I was going to say the other side of the coin as far as my practice, again, we have just a great group of attorneys here, associates, and shareholders as well.
Ed Nahhat:
Your background as a business lawyer probably prepared you well to be sort of a business manager here at the law firm. And now, you're segueing into … I'm trying to think of the right phrase, but you're sort of a whole-client lawyer now where you have the business client, you also have estate planning for the client, and they're merging together. Is that how you would describe it?
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, I think there's a nice blend there. Actually, it was very intentional for me to get to this point. As you know, I started out just—first 25 years—was heavy litigation: shareholder disputes, oppression claims, non-competes, contract matters, some IP litigation, copyright—no patent work, but copyright trademark stuff, sales rep cases (things like that), plaintiff and defendant.
And so, yeah, for 25 years I was just banging that drum pretty hard, and it was great. I had a lot of great experiences: Court of Appeals—Michigan Court of Appeals—probably had, I don't know how many cases, 20, more—federal jury trials, bench trials, state court trials, arbitrations, Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, maybe a dozen times. Michigan Supreme Court once, I have one case published out of the Michigan Supreme Court.
Ed Nahhat:
I love going to Supreme Court.
Brian Rolfe:
I just made it one time, but it was a great experience. I still do litigation, not as much as before.
Ed Nahhat:
Well, if you're a business owner and you've had a business—a successful business—for a quarter-century and you've had a few skirmishes over the years, and now, you're thinking, “What am I going to do with this business while I spend some more time, family time, and I have a younger generation coming up?” – I want to talk to the guy that's been there with me. So, they want to talk to you about the future, right?
Brian Rolfe:
Oh man, indeed. I think the firm as a whole—we've got all kinds of succession planning in terms of selling the business to the next generation or finding a third-party buyer to pass the business off to. We've also got just a lot of folks that—the baby boomer wave that's coming in—where just they've got issues with powers of attorney, and we certainly have a lot of, as you know, post-death estate and trust administration work, which is just really, it's a tough time for families, and we've got such a great bench here to handle those kinds of things.
So, there's been a lot of that work. And at the end of the day, you have a client meeting in the estate planning context, and you really feel the relief from the clients at the end of the meeting or even once you get going, and you're really adding a lot of value, doing them a great service.
Ed Nahhat:
Trying to avoid the nightmare of family dispute. I have cases where the people have already created arguments, and you're in this business of trying to avoid them. And I think that's the smarter move. I keep telling people, “Stay away from me.” (Chuckles). You don't want to have a dispute in court with me.
Brian Rolfe:
Right on, definitely not. It's unavoidable. Sometimes you do as much thoughtful planning on the front end as you can and make sure distributions are clear, and if there's some sort of benefit that one of the kids received ahead of the others, you try to account for that in the trust document.
Ed Nahhat:
That's so important for clients of all kinds. I didn't really realize that until I started working here, and you're a perfect example of that.
But speaking of Kemp Klein and your growth as the leader here, we just celebrated at this firm, the 55th anniversary of the firm, and we had a really nice party the other night, and you gave a wonderful speech, and we had a really great slideshow of photographs, and everybody looked a heck of a lot younger.
Brian Rolfe:
Well, a lot of those were way before our time, with 55 years in the till, so to speak. Some of those were classics, going back to the mid-eighties with the big hair and shoulder pads and wide ties and suits that didn't fit.
Ed Nahhat:
Well, I wore that stuff, but that wasn't here.
Brian Rolfe:
Exactly, yeah.
Ed Nahhat:
What I like about it is that it has a family feel to it. We all know each other, we all support each other, and that's one of the reasons why we're doing Pro Bono, is because I want everyone to know us on a personal level. And I understand you're one of the board members of the Kemp Klein Foundation?
Brian Rolfe:
Yeah, and it's comprised of a variety of folks from Kemp Klein. We've got me and other shareholders, and then we've got staff folks. And what we want is just input from everybody in terms of where we want to focus with the foundation’s charitable contributions and efforts.
And you may be coming to this, but the golf outing is a big thing that we've really focused on. Third annual golf outing this year, it was just a slam dunk. Again, the support from our clients and our referral sources—
Ed Nahhat:
Other lawyers, judges.
Brian Rolfe:
Lawyers in the firm and outside of the firm, just a great turnout. So, I think it was north of 30 grand we gave to Forgotten Harvest.
Ed Nahhat:
I know why they chose you to be President and CEO of Kemp Klein, and I'm glad they did, and thank you for joining us today. We really appreciate it.
Brian Rolfe:
My pleasure. And thank you for putting this together. The production and the effort you put in is over the top. And it's a great thing to let people know about the firm and the people here, and then also at some level, describe how we can help them. And that's really what we're trying to do as lawyers.
Ed Nahhat:
Alright, next time we come back to Pro Bono, we'll feature a rising star right here at Kemp Klein. Thanks a lot.